Hello guys

[lingistis]

Welcome zorans83 to GAB

I am surprised to see that you are putting up fro grabs the “I am selling fish” aspect in this forum as well… straight from your first post. I would had expected, since you found that it is not affordable to sell fish to Greece, you to show us photographs of your aquarium and fish, tell us how you manage all those tanks ect… which are very interesting topics to talk about.

Myself, since I am a mbuna keeper and I am only a couple of hours drive from your town, why don’t you post were we can come and find you… I think this would be a great idea for a nice one-day return trip. That way we can see your fish first hand, learn from your experience and probably buy some rare to Greece species.

So that there would be no misconception to my post, I am referring to my original question to you about proper papers and veterinary control of your fish that are to be imported to the E.E. from a third country. You replied that this can be arranged but since it costs 180 euros we (by we, the members of the other Greek forum) should forget the hole thing and abandonee the idea of buying fish straight from you. This was only a couple of days ago… so my question is what has changed?

As I wrote, I would like to see photos of your breeding tank settings, read on your breeding methods and of course talk about mbuna ect… and if I am invited, I would seriously consider a day visit with friends to your facilities.

Για αρχή συγνώμη για την παρέμβαση αλλά βλέπω εδώ να εξελίσσετε ένα σοβαρό θέμα, δηλαδή η μετακίνησης προς πώληση ζωντανών μεταξύ χωρών μη μελών της Ε.Ε., το οποίο έχει γίνει θέμα συζήτησης και σε άλλα ξένα forum, με αρκετές αρνητικές κριτικές για όσους το πράττουν.

Τα παραπάνω ψάρια που προτίθεται να πουλήσει ο συνχομπίστας – πουλητής από τα Σκόπια θα μπουν νόμιμα στην Χώρα μας;

Θα συνοδεύονται από χαρτιά κτηνιάτρου;

Εάν ναι τότε όλα καλά

εάν όχι τότε μήπως ενθαρρύνετε η παράνομη διακίνηση ζωντανών μεταξύ χωρών

[in the pond]

Very impressive pictures indeed!!!
Welcome to our company and thank you for sharing with us.

[kwstas_original]

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από lingistis

Για αρχή συγνώμη για την παρέμβαση αλλά βλέπω εδώ να εξελίσσετε ένα σοβαρό θέμα, δηλαδή η μετακίνησης προς πώληση ζωντανών μεταξύ χωρών μη μελών της Ε.Ε., το οποίο έχει γίνει θέμα συζήτησης και σε άλλα ξένα forum, με αρκετές αρνητικές κριτικές για όσους το πράττουν.

Τα παραπάνω ψάρια που προτίθεται να πουλήσει ο συνχομπίστας – πουλητής από τα Σκόπια θα μπουν νόμιμα στην Χώρα μας;

Θα συνοδεύονται από χαρτιά κτηνιάτρου;
Εάν ναι τότε όλα καλά

εάν όχι τότε μήπως ενθαρρύνετε η παράνομη διακίνηση ζωντανών μεταξύ χωρών

Συγνωμη κι ολας αλλα στην Ελλαδα δεν ερχονται μονο ψαρια απο την Ε.Ε.
Αληθεια αυτα καθεστε και συζητατε στα ξενα φορα?!

Και στην τελικη...εχεις παρει ποτε ψαρια με χαρτια κτηνιατρου?!?!?
Η ακομη και αυτα που εισαγωνται απο επισημους εμπορους συνοδευονται απο χαρτομανι?!?

[zorans83]

Lingistis I am also surprised that you are following me from forum to forum stating exactly the same thing over and over again.I have closed The add at the other forum mainly because of your demands.Which I find them to be ridiculous and by the way, so are all the other members of the forum, who have encouraged me to continue and not give up because of one .... guy who seams to be everywhere .If you are that interested in my fish than why don't you write a pm instead of writing in my topics demands which are impossible to be meet.Please tell me if you see a price list anywhere in this topic.I haven't put one yet even though a couple of members have continuously asked me to.
To answer your question YES! you and a couple of your friends can come and visit me.Yes you can see my display tanks.You can see my breeding tanks.Hell I can even give you the key from the whole fish house if I thought that would be enough.But I get the feeling it still won't.After all if you feel that patriotic and take ti upon your self to protect the greek people from being damaged somehow by this transaction, you'd stop to read the add and see that fish offered are being payed in person and picked up in person.If I risk the trip all the way to Thesaloniki to meet someone I never met before and also risk the possibility of him not liking my fish (which then I sentence to death since I'll be coming back very late and they cant survive that long in a bag ) and that doesn't cut it for you and you need more??? I think a lot of guys reading this post to this point think the same thing and that is ...You are being ridiculous.You are either a breeder or a shop owner or engaged somehow in this business and hate to see things change for you.I am explaining this whole situation again not for you but for all the guys who you are trying to convince not to buy fish from me.
"We are able to provide the following documents base on each country’s specifications:
- Certificate of Origin 30 eur
- Fish Health Certificate SGD 20 eur
- CITES Permit 70 eur
It is the responsibility of the buyer to notify us about the requirement of all documentations in accordance with the
regulations of their destination country; we will complement all documents necessary. However, we will
not be liable for any missing documents, fines and confiscated goods if the buyer fails to notify us of the
requirements.
It is recommended that all live animals should be cleared from the customs in any condition. This is for the
welfare of the animals. And we will contribute our part should there be a need to."
The info in the citation mark is a part of the business terms I have with whole sale customers,or shop owners in other words retailers.In short I can provide you with all papers necessary at your expense.You still wont be able to import the fish since you'll need a registered quarantine and a licence to import live stock.That can be only provided to you by Greek authorities.I have tried to offer fish to another forum at a retail price and deliver ( not more than 50 fish at one trip).For that purpose It is possible for me to bring the fish to Thessaloníki and avoid all the extra paper charges.
Since the demand showed up to be not more than 10 fish and you my friend came with those ridiculous demands I concluded that it is really not worth for me economically to go through this whole thing.That is why I have closed the add even though I regret it.I am contacting a number of Shop owners who can reach my minimum quantity order and wont put 500% profit on them since the wholesale prices of my fish are ridiculously low does enabling everyone to have them.That was my idea when I started this whole fish house and it will hold me to the end.If no such agreement is met by any shop or importer I will try again to make an agreement with the forum owners and administrators.I guess you'll still be here to spoil that for everybody but don't worry.I'm a pretty persistent guy

[lingistis]

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από zorans83

Lingistis I am also surprised that you are following me from forum to forum stating exactly the same thing over and over again.

I am not following you... take a look at the date I regestered here...

I have closed The add at the other forum mainly because of your demands.Which I find them to be ridiculous and by the way, so are all the other members of the forum, who have encouraged me to continue and not give up because of one .... guy who seams to be everywhere .

I am Greek... so its natural for me to be a member of the Greek forums... at which other forums not Greek are you a member?

If you are that interested in my fish than why don't you write a pm instead of writing in my topics demands which are impossible to be meet.

I am not asking... I am stating the law. Here you say things are impossible... later on you say you can... what is the truth?

This is a forum not a private chat room, things I have to say I say public.

Please tell me if you see a price list anywhere in this topic.I haven't put one yet even though a couple of members have continuously asked me to.

I am very carfull with what I write. I never wrote that you are selling... I said you implied it.

To answer your question YES! you and a couple of your friends can come and visit me.Yes you can see my display tanks.You can see my breeding tanks.Hell I can even give you the key from the whole fish house if I thought that would be enough.But I get the feeling it still won't.

As I wrote I am interested in visiting. So yes if you write were we can find you we will come. I would also like to see some photos of your facitity to get an idea of what we are expected to see... since you are inviting us over... So please after the "YES! you and a couple of your friends can come and visit me" let us know where you are so we can come.

After all if you feel that patriotic and take ti upon your self to protect the greek people from being damaged somehow by this transaction, you'd stop to read the add and see that fish offered are being payed in person and picked up in person.If I risk the trip all the way to Thesaloniki to meet someone I never met before and also risk the possibility of him not liking my fish (which then I sentence to death since I'll be coming back very late and they cant survive that long in a bag ) and that doesn't cut it for you and you need more???

So this is an add? Sure starts to look like one...

I think a lot of guys reading this post to this point think the same thing and that is ...You are being ridiculous.

I know how to swear also so take this back!

You are either a breeder or a shop owner or engaged somehow in this business and hate to see things change for you.

I stated that I am a mbuna keeper... nothing more... I aslo wrote
"That way we can see your fish first hand, learn from your experience and probably buy some rare to Greece species". Which part did you not understand?

I am explaining this whole situation again not for you but for all the guys who you are trying to convince not to buy fish from me.

I think you are afraid of something... because as I wrote... "and probably buy some rare to Greece species"

Thus if you do have interesting fish to offer why should one not buy them from you? I understand that you have mbuna that some of us are seeking for years. We have found them in other countries markets... so the question is what are you selling? If the fish are your bread I would like to read how they are raised from you, like I do from all people here before they offer there fish for sell... they dont come out of the bloom and say hi and here are my fish for sell. We dont know you from yesterday... so why should we trust you? Give us a reason to trust you as a hobby aquarist and not a shop seller. Give us links to your fish presentations in other forums. Im sure someone with so many tanks has presented them somewhere.

"We are able to provide the following documents base on each countryʼs specifications:
- Certificate of Origin 30 eur
- Fish Health Certificate SGD 20 eur
- CITES Permit 70 eur
It is the responsibility of the buyer to notify us about the requirement of all documentations in accordance with the
regulations of their destination country; we will complement all documents necessary. However, we will
not be liable for any missing documents, fines and confiscated goods if the buyer fails to notify us of the
requirements.
It is recommended that all live animals should be cleared from the customs in any condition. This is for the
welfare of the animals. And we will contribute our part should there be a need to."
The info in the citation mark is a part of the business terms I have with whole sale customers,or shop owners in other words retailers.In short I can provide you with all papers necessary at your expense.You still wont be able to import the fish since you'll need a registered quarantine and a licence to import live stock.That can be only provided to you by Greek authorities.I have tried to offer fish to another forum at a retail price and deliver ( not more than 50 fish at one trip).For that purpose It is possible for me to bring the fish to Thessaloníki and avoid all the extra paper charges.
Since the demand showed up to be not more than 10 fish and you my friend came with those ridiculous demands I concluded that it is really not worth for me economically to go through this whole thing.That is why I have closed the add even though I regret it.I am contacting a number of Shop owners who can reach my minimum quantity order and wont put 500% profit on them since the wholesale prices of my fish are ridiculously low does enabling everyone to have them.That was my idea when I started this whole fish house and it will hold me to the end.If no such agreement is met by any shop or importer I will try again to make an agreement with the forum owners and administrators.I guess you'll still be here to spoil that for everybody but don't worry.I'm a pretty persistent guy

You say "We" who are "we"? It looks like you are working with/for someone?

Here are some links of the fish you presented as yours....

http://www.cichlid.sk/clanok-410/iod...rengerae-red-/

http://www.cichlid.sk/clanok-464/sci...berg-red-fin-/

http://www.cichlid.sk/clanok-371/aul...aenschi-benga/

http://www.cichlid.sk/clanok-379/aul...hansbaenschi-/

as I wrote... give us a reason to trust you and we will buy your fish.

From http://www.cichlid.sk/ most of us can purchase them ourselves

Good luck with the shop owners...

to cut a long story short...

present your fish room, lets talk about mbuna...

and tell us were can we find you in Skopia and we will save you the trip to Thessaliniki.

Happy Easter.

[zorans83]

I am not following you... take a look at the date I regestered here...
I meant following my posts everywhere,you can be a member everywhere but don't have to have your share in every post especially mine
I am Greek... so its natural for me to be a member of the Greek forums... at which other forums not Greek are you a member?
http://www.aquaticacentral.com,www.m...ids-bg.com,You can see some of my display tanks there
I am not asking... I am stating the law. Here you say things are impossible... later on you say you can... what is the truth?
It was my mistake if I used the word impossible,The correct word would be stupid,since only stupid people would pay 120 euros worth of permits for 30 euros worth of fish
As I wrote I am interested in visiting. So yes if you write were we can find you we will come. I would also like to see some photos of your facitity to get an idea of what we are expected to see... since you are inviting us over... So please after the "YES! you and a couple of your friends can come and visit me" let us know where you are so we can come.
I am also careful what I write ! So I said even if I give you the keys from my fish house that still wont be enough since I think you are a breeder and engaged in comertial breeding and seeing you or dealing with you in any way can only hurt my business my hobby and my wellbeing
So this is an add?
I meant about the add in the other forum
I think you are afraid of something... because as I wrote... "and probably buy some rare to Greece species"

Thus if you do have interesting fish to offer why should one not buy them from you? I understand that you have mbuna that some of us are seeking for years. We have found them in other countries markets... so the question is what are you selling? If the fish are your bread I would like to read how they are raised from you, like I do from all people here before they offer there fish for sell... they dont come out of the bloom and say hi and here are my fish for sell. We dont know you from yesterday... so why should we trust you? Give us a reason to trust you as a hobby aquarist and not a shop seller. Give us links to your fish presentations in other forums. Im sure someone with so many tanks has presented them somewhere.
I mentioned previously what I'm afraid off and that's "you are a breeder" part.What I offered for sale in the other forum was on the list,Why you keep asking what I'm selling.You need to trust me as a breeder not a seller so take a look at my proposal for keeping you guys updated on my future imports and adventures of how I travel and collect my fish.The first one to come is My trip to Bulgaria and I'm going after the holiday to pick up these babies https://picasaweb.google.com/ekova4eva/Fish02?feat=di And some altos and aulonocaras so stay tuned

You say "We" who are "we"? It looks like you are working with/for someone?
That was a copy past from my web site business terms section.I work mostly alone even though I always get help when I need it from My friends cichlid keepers and I am always grateful to them.I use the word we to make the company sound more serious to wholesale customers.Some of these people are really successfull in their field so I don't want to sound not good enough.
Here are some links of the fish you presented as yours....
Pictures belong to fuljerova and I have a permission to use them.
If you run through my other posts where I talk about the fish and about where I mostly get them from youll see that I've clearly said that the greates part of my breeding colonies I've bought from cichliden-stadl and filjerova aka cichlid.sk so Yes fish in the pictures are mine.My mistake not to mention that the pictures are not mine.All of the pictures from the previous posts are also not taken by me or not mine even though they were pictures of my actual fish but I have mentioned that in the other forum.It is not an excuse that I haven't mentioned it here as well since pictures like that require a great deal of work and talent and they should be always credited to the people that have taken them thank you fuljerova and Vsutarov for letting me use your photos.
as i wrote... give us a reason to trust you and we will buy your fish.
The fish I offered in the other forum are not rarities,I don't mean to sound harsh but You probably don't have a great selection to choose from in Greece.Here is the same thing, so you can follow my footsteps and try to pick up some fish from surrounding countries.Just try not to be so demanding with papers and forms and if you do make sure they are worth it cause nobody likes to do a 24 hour job for a 4 hour pay
I guess this doesn't answer your question give me a chance and you'll see.Follow my posts ask questions(not questions about how much money I make or stupid stuff related to my work but questions that do matter.Sorry lingistis but your questions are silly to me.I have never been in trouble with the law for importing 20 fish. I have been for importing 200 without papers but that's a story too long for this post and if you give me a chance I'll share it with you in the near future and the stories to come
From http://www.cichlid.sk/ most of us can purchase them ourselves o
Why don't you. Fuljerova and her husband own one of the best cichlids I've seen.I can also help you with your choices since some of the fish do not look as good in person as they do on the pictures.But don't worry The fish I got from her are really pretty
Happy Easter.
And happy easter to you and all members of this wonderful forum
PS. Tell me what positions you want me to take of my breeding house so theres no confusion to who's this breeding house is. I'll take some photos of me as well in there but that wont prove it's my house since I said I visit too many breeders and could just as easily take some of their pictures and present the fishrooms as mine. I am open to suggestions .
Regards,
Zoran

[lingistis]

Im not going to comment since you fail to answer the main parameter of this all...

Αρχική Δημοσίευση από lingistis

to cut a long story short...

present your fish room, lets talk about mbuna...

Happy Easter.

Your links are too generic... give us a derect link to one of your presentations... not a display tank.

Take any kind of photos you like... maybe next time you are in Bitola - Monastiri we meet in person.

Happy Easter and enjoy your Cichlids !

[zorans83]

Ufff you are doing it again lingistis.But don't worry I never get tired
I do not allow anyone I don't know or even the ones I know but don't trust in my fish house.You had the chance to buy my "rare" mbunas but you wanted 120 euros worth of papers for them.But don't worry.Some people are still interested in them and soon enough they will have them and you can still stay here and ask whatever you need to ask.I imagine you as a child in a grocery store asking the guy at the desk a million questions Do you have this, Do you have that? and never buying anything. No one is twisting your arm and forcing you to buy fish.And please don't say you do this for the other members of the forum .I have asked you to be patient and give me a chance and you'll get proof but you can't do that so please step back and let people who can be patient and who can give me a chance go through.
I've sold many comertial species all over my country so can't remember who bought what from Bitola.I don't go there but send fish via express cargo .
Dont get this too personal but you sir are starting to scare me
I don't think I want to meet you in person thank god you are not one of the guys who ordered fish from me.I get the feeling you'll go all the way to calling the cops on me just for 20 fish I'ts a good thing I've already been there as I have mentioned in my previous post staid at customs whole night paid a penalty of 400 eu but the thing that hurt the most was all my fish were taken from me.But hey did that stop me?No that is why I am here enjouing the reputation of being the best cichlid breeder in my country Bulgaria,Serbia,Albania,Kosovo and guess what country is next.Just guess
Greek people will have every cichlid they desire and it wont cost them an arm or a leg.I saw some of the prices of saltwater fish offered in greece and I guess Greece was blessed with people who made a difference in that area and that is why you enjoy those prices today.Well I am positively certain that I can do the same thing those people did.I know greek hobists want that.I know it simply because I am just another fish keeper who wants to have those pretty fish and don't have to pay a fortune I dont have for them to be mine.

[xLoMoc]

Nice cichlids Zoran and nice try to care about those tanks.Realy good job keep it up. !